i am incredily heated right now 
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Heya Stella,
Iâve truly made an effort to try and understand your point of view here, but no matter how I see it, I still believe this kind of reasoning is somewhat naive. While I do believe that ranks are important for the server to stay alive and I definitely support ranks, it is undeniable that ranks give you a significant advantage.
You say that time is irrelevant in survival, but thatâs not entirely true. Yes, the season does last for a year and a half, and yes, there is the chance for every player to find their way of being successful. Nonetheless, youâre avoiding the facts here. The facts are that, as I speak, there is a single non ranked player in baltop, and I am pretty certain that it is the alt of a ranked player. Mctop ? Same thing : a single non ranked player, who just happens to be an alt. Bosslb ? A single non ranked player, who however has had elite a few times and currently has elite through winning events on other gamemodes. You can argue that on the long term, non ranked players have the same shot. Alright, letâs take a look at the S3 leaderboards then. 2 months before the end of the season : 0 non ranked players in the top 15 baltop ranks, 0 non ranked players in the top 10 mcmmo ranks.
It nearly seems as though youâre trying to apply your case to every non-ranked player of survival. I acknowledge that you were very popular and thrived even without having full ranks for over a year. Nonetheless, you arenât the typical survival player. Not everyone has the mental capacity to do that, and while non-ranked players can definitely grind, itâs demotivating to do that when you know youâre unlikely to reach leaderboards.
To add onto that, since it is true that you were non ranked for so long, Iâd like to ask you some questions. Were you topping leaderboards back then ? Did you have shulkers full of crate items like some ranked players did ? You did not. Again, you could argue that you were just focusing on other things instead of wanting to go for leaderboards. But, perhaps, you focusing on other things in itself can be explained by the fact that you did own not some ranks.
I am very well aware that leaderboards arenât all there is to survival. However, if weâre talking about âthrivingâ, about âwinningâ, then theyâre a huge part of what survival is. I still support ranks because ranks are needed to keep the server alive. But ranks give you an advantage, and thatâs just a fact. It doesnât mean that players who donât have a rank will quit, nor that they will never play a significant part in the community. I myself have lots of non ranked friends who I believe are wonderful people. It simply means that ranked players have way better odds of being âsuccessfulâ.
I would like to finish this reply by conveying a certain concern for the ideas that youâre expressing. I know this is a mere block game, however, as weâre all human and I am inevitably a person behind the âVicviâ who just happens to be a sociology student, I canât help but type this in my reply. When applied to the real world, the mentality that you have is the same mentality that blames poor people for remaining in precarious situations, the same mentality that blames social groups who suffer from discrimination for being unable to reach certain positions in work or social environments. Dedication is not enough to get up there in the social hierarchy. If dedication were enough, then surely we wouldnât have as much racial disparity and gender disparity. If dedication were enough, we wouldnât have so many people with disabilities in professional precarity. We would have way less urban segregation and polarization. I could go on, but Iâll refrain from getting political in this reply. All this to say, this kind of mentality is very concerning, and I do hope you can understand where Iâm coming from and reflect on this.
You are entitled to your opinion and if you believe that what Iâm saying doesnât mean anything, thatâs your right. But since weâre having a debate here, I at least wanted to share mine. When it comes to the tone I used, I do not mean any disrespect. Rather, my intent was simply to contest some of the arguments that you used with the help of factual evidence.
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Hayo Maccas,
I just wanted to say that I deeply appreciate the way you explained your point of view in your reply. Wording it this way makes it clear and easy to understand. The only part Iâd disagree with is the latter part where you imply non-ranked get mocked and eventually quit. Both ranked players and non-ranked players quit, very often for the same reasons and usually by waves. There are also nearly just as many long-standing non-ranked players as there are ranked players. I do agree with all the rest though, the advantages are there, and having a rank not only makes gameplay incredibly easier, but it also makes you more inclined to work on big projects and participate in competitions/go for leaderboards.
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I fricking love vicvi
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While I am aware that irl deals give players who are willing to spend irl money in exchange for in-game currency a significant advantage, it also massively helps the server and players who do in fact wish to have ranks and do not have the irl financial capacity to purchase them themselves. The part I disagree with when it comes to irl deals is that someone can buy their way to the top of the leaderboards. However, a) if youâre willing to irl deal for players, then itâs only fair that you get some benefits from it, and b) it is unfair to put all the blame on the person who is irl dealing. If someone can buy the way to the top of the leaderboards, thatâs a server issue. And if the player who irl deals is able to get rich off of that business, then there is undeniably a part of the community who supports activities of that kind. Itâs not as if the irl dealer was buying gold. The irl dealer is offering a service. In terms of feedback, the only element I have in mind as of now is for there to be more options to purchase things with in-game currency without the irl dealer as an intermediary. Nonetheless, server support is still necessary, so it would be quite complex to find balance in this topic.
edit : This is a reply to the original post (crafty looking for feedback and seeking to understand concerns for irl deals)
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Iâm just a vicvi -
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a pretty cool vicvi, probably the coolest i know
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this post was icky im sorry
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Forgot to start off with thisâŚ
No matter what, it seems that everything that I have claimed has not been taken into consideration. I have listed tons of ways to just put those perks close to alternatives that are accessible to anyone just to show everyone that one, the perks arenât busted, and second, it is easy to do without them⌠but Iâm legit exhausted enough to go through every/some perks again and just explain how easy it is to do without them.
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You see, again and thatâs something I mentioned at the end of my main reply to Donald, survival isnât necessarily for grinding. Non ranked players arenât at any leaderboard, itâs their choice. That doesnât imply the fact that ranks makes things significantly and drastically easy. Most ranked players are old players who have a lot more knowledge than the others. No matter what, theyâd still have that habit of grinding. They know how to get gold efficiently etc. List me someone in the leaderboard that has a rank and that is completely new to the game.
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The boss leaderboard is the same thing. If people donât necessarily have any reason to do it, they just wonât. Since the competition popped up, @Ironnose started doing the storylines. He legit has a spot in an actual leaderboard despite the struggles. Anyone could just do like him, it isnât a rank thing to just skim through the quests. Gold already eases them enough as you can buy specific stuff you need in order to complete any.
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You seem to point out that survival is necessarily a competitive game mode which is not untrue but not the most significant thing for any new comer, I say this because they most likely donât have any ranks and donât just go to the store and buy. They donât all need/want to place themselves at any leaderboards and if they do, they put themselves into the goal. Survival reset a couple months ago, let time for people that really wants to shine actually shine.
Again, leaderboards⌠while I do take into account that some aim for leaderboard, it clearly not more than half the community and thatâs my opinion. People build stuff, hang out with friends. Tons of ranked and non ranked players just play for fun and casual conversations within the community. There is no excessive competitions going around and there never will because there is just no urge.
Yes and no. I happened to have grinded over 200k gold, 100k going for tocca. I actually had decent places on season to onto the leaderboard but then again, that wasnât my goal and the goal to just feel superior and place into a leaderboard doesnât appeal to more than half the player base.
??? I genuinely did have some crate gadgets but why you have to phrase it as ranked players have them all whereas the rank and the gadget donât have anything in common? Ranks donât mean having tons of crate items. I had flower picks on season 2, a butterfly net, moon shoes, Rudolph boots⌠I had a decent amount of crate items that I acquired from others thanks to gold or looting them though crates.
Thatâs wrong, wrong to me in the sense that you are implying that having a rank will make you want to aim for leaderboard which is false. How many ++ player just play for fun?? You didnât get to witness all those ++ ranked players that just left, not because of any thing related to competition, but survival not being the same anymore. Survival not being fun and thus from interacting with the community as it changes overtime.
By the time I participated the map art competition with @toccataski, I only had plus. I couldnât fly, I couldnât just die and respawn with stuff. I was genuinely getting my elytras and going through biomes to gather blocks. Whatâs faster? Having /fly gets you more blocks?
I happened to have built an actual iron farm with DocArti, he changed his name to Anubi00 and quit before season 3, without needing fly. Sure it wasnât necessarily fast but would it have mattered if I knew already that it would be done no matter what?
When there is a will, thereâs a way. Having that type of mentality you are addressing me with this reply is to get in my head that things have limits. And the second you restrict your mindset, you donât look to put all your heart and soul into what you are doing. You just donât try and stand out from others, innovating. If we were all to think that self motivation and dedication would never ever ever be enough, how would the world even go forward? Why would people keep on doing better if there is no willingness and dedication to do more?
Hi again maccas, the misunderstanding of your first reply might be due to a language barrier, I apologize for that. I am sorry that you had to go through that experience and I do hope you find joy in playing survival again someday. I know several players who went through a similar experience as you, and I know how tough it is. Some have unfortunately quit, others have managed to find motivation for other projects. If you ever do play survival again, make sure to hit me up. Iâd love to hang out together.
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Candle? So Iâve read all ur replies and you keep saying the same things, which is, survival is not p2w because you can still get all of the advantages that ranked players get just by grinding. Thatâs still p2w dude.
This is the google definition of p2w. You might not be winning anything from survival. but, itâs still following the definition of p2w.
I wanna end this topic by saying that all these replies are just making the survival community look worse. And,I also wanna say that survival being p2w is all my opinion! Have a good day everyone! And sorry for the bad grammar lol
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YellowBestiebee, Yellowbee83233 last season. I remember congratulating her on getting mining top, and having to explain to her what it was because she was unaware that there were leaderboards for that. Back then she just mined all day and happened to reach leaderboards.
The other thing is that there are many non ranked players who are not completely new to the game. No one who is completely new to the game will be on leaderboards, but no ranked players who are not new to the game are in the leaderboards. Only ranked ones.
Since the competition started, Ironnose has also had elite. Iâm not saying that he wouldnât be there without the elite, but heâs still partially ranked, and therefore canât be used as an example for non ranked players.
Just like there are new players who buy ranks right off the bat and reach leaderboards, there are non ranked players who have played for a really long time and who are not in the leaderboards. The question is why ? Why would there be no old non ranked players in leaderboards, if older players know equally better how to grind ?
I agree with this. Thereâs so much stuff to do in the community. My main issue is that only ranked players are among the âbig grindersâ who are on leaderboards, and if thatâs the case, the likelihood of being a âbig grinderâ appears to be directly correlated with having a rank / not having a rank.
Meanwhile, other players had 8 anets, 10 labrys, 10 tyches, etc. I donât mean to criticize you here, however Iâve seen ranked players who have played for just as much time as non ranked players, yet they have significantly more.
a. As far as Iâm aware, tocca was ranked.
b. As stated in my previous reply, you are not the typical survival player, and just because you could do it, that doesnât mean that every player can. If every player had the capacity to do that, then weâd have tons of examples for this.
Except not everyone shares a culture with the same wills, and your wills are largely determined by what you own.
The second you ârestrict your mindsetâ, youâre stopping yourself from going through immense frustration and guilt (due to self-blame, and due to being inculpated by other people). Guilt is one of the worst feelings, and unfortunately not everyone has the privilege of saying that trying is enough. Iâm glad you have it, but just because you have that privilege, that doesnât mean that everyone can say the same. Having grown up in a country with so much inequality, I recognize that I am immensely privileged. I have the best conditions, and although I worked hard, I worked way less than some people who had less than me. And unfortunately, in spite of those peopleâs efforts, they still have less than I do. Recognizing privilege when you have it is important, and I hope someday you get to see it too.
edit : Even though I benefit from financial privilege, there are many other privileges that I donât get to have, and Iâve been through situations where Iâve felt guilty for not trying hard enough. It took me a really long time to realize that it wasnât my fault. Because even when having more qualifications, more experience, and just as much dedication and motivation as another person, they were offered a position instead of me. I have experienced this ; tons other people have also experienced this. So many studies show that with the same qualifications, a person with a name that sounds a certain way will get a work position instead of person that has a name that sounds another way because they are part of a demographic group that is generally at a social disadvantage (being associated with incompetence, lack of skills, laziness, as well as other negative traits). And acknowledging that I did the best I could (and factually speaking, I deserved it way more than the other person did), spares me from feeling a whole ton of guilt.
edit 2 : The reason why I implied the existence of bias here is that players are treated differently according to the rank they have, and non-ranked players are generally thought of as less capable. How many times have I seen people use vipchat as a way to exclude non-ranked players from conversations that couldâve happened in global ? How many people look specifically for ranked players to hire for jobs that in itself do not require a rank ? Iâve seen players discriminate against ânonsâ so many times, saying âthose nonsâ as a way to connote every inexperienced player. I really wished that wasnât a reality in game, but unfortunately it is. The opportunities that you have in game and the access you have to the global community is sadly much greater when the color of your name is blue.
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yes i deleted it bc i guess my argument isnt that its pay 2 win
my argument is that its not like most p2w servers.
calling it that feels wrong, i think it needs another definition
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Adapted for prison:
Itâs a story about 2 players. They both joined on the same day at the launch of map 10. Player A and Player B. Player A was able to afford himself Mafia rank on day 1! Player B was unable to do the same, staying normal just like everyone else.
Both players really love mining! Player A got himself 26 mafia crates and 40 regular crates providing all the starter gear theyâd ever need. Player B had to spend 20 minutes asking how to get a miners pick with no one answering him. Player Aâs inventory is filled with so guard/donor gear, so he stashes them away using /storage. Player Bâs items go into a chest, and then get stolen due to zero day bug exploit the admins were unaware of. Player A has to craft himself some things for his cell so he pulls up a crafting table using /craft in a second. Player B has to go /warp park and finds all the trees are mined. He spends an hour just trying to get enough wood for some chests for his cell.
Uh oh, both players have decided to go looting and have ran into each other! Player A doesnât worry, he has access to /drugdealer and a sharp 8 brute sword! Sorry player B, but your guard armour just got 3 tapped. You canât even turn back to hit Player A because youâre having to pot so much. After 30 seconds of fighting , player B runs out of hunger and canât sprint, leading to him getting comboâd into oblivion and unable to run away. Player A has forgotten hunger is even in the game.
Oh look, the leaderboard prizes have been announced! Player A is ready to crush the competition. Player B knows he has no chance, but still gives it his best. Player A is set up to loot and mine from day 1. Player B spending a week mining in c1 to be able to buy donor gear. Player A has found a full pvp ultra set! Player B has barely scraped together a dia set of various pieces of armour. Heâs particularly proud of his brute chestplate he managed to sneak a bid on while the ranked players were arguing.
And so they run into each other outside again, player A won! Big surprise!
Player B congratulates player A, while player A tries to hold back laughter looking at player Bâs frantic panic potting and how heâs being thrown around helpless by Player Aâs ultras. And just for a second as they think about the fight that took place, they realize something is not right, that things will never be fair.
Player A comes from a middle class family in southern california. He gets 40 dollars pocket money each week. He casts the thought that itâs unfair out of his mind. After all, he spent his own money on that rank that heâd saved up for.
Player B comes from a middle class family in egypt. The cost of living is lower there, so wages are lower. His currency converts at a rate to USD so poorly it means the idea of buying something from munchy store is a total pipedream.
Player A goes on to succeed, selling rares and getting gear. He loves the community and the community loves him. Player B, on the other hand, finally gives up. The game simply isnât fun for him. He quits and nobody even remembers him.
Neither of these players are real. They do not represent the experiences of every player. They are a metaphor. However, many players have had experiences like these.
In many cases, a player with a non rank may last, and eventually irl deal rares for a rank, and succeed without ever having to pay. Conversely, a player with a rank may find themselvees out of their depth without the skill to back up their gear.
Nonetheless, this imbalance exists, and it always will. Real world advantages will bleed into something with was ostensibly supposed to be escapism⌠and thatâs sad. Itâs very sad.
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actually right i just want to make a small addition to this
i think having Elite and above for keepinv is a lot already, even for the comp. bosses are supposed to always have keepinv, but after playing quests with and without keepinv thereâs still the random bug where the boss could kill you and the server thinks âhey that guy died naturally, no keepinv for youâ.
sure, itâs a bug, but by having keepinv it immediately evades this bug and a lot of frustration
compared to other forms of death in surv, dying during boss (due to the bug) is terrible because it guarantees a loss in items if no one was able to pick the items up for the dead
so, keepinv good
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Yall are loud
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defending survival on a dead server like yor life depends on it 
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Surv is not p2w just cuz i got monkey pet
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These are Mojangâs official Commercial Usage Guidelines.
This means that Survival objectively does break EULA, and therefore is P2W.
Iâd methodically go through every argument you made against this, Candle, but it seems unnecessary at this point.
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There are two separate questions in this debate:
1. Is survival pay-to-win?
2. Is there a problem with that?
I donât really like the phrase âpay-to-winâ. It means different things to different people, and it also has a negative connotation behind it. When I say pay-to-win, Iâm referencing Mojangâs official EULA, which states ââŚsomething that, given identical skill levels, time investment, and circumstances, can cause one player or group to perform better than anotherâ.
The answer to question one is a pretty obvious yes. Survival has many rank features that, if bought, offer advantages over other non-ranked players. Nobody can reasonably argue that a ranked player wonât do better than an unranked player of equal skill and dedication. Ranked players keep their inventory, ranked players have backpacks, and ranked players can fly. Survival ++ is an advantage, and to claim otherwise is to ignore foundational facts of survival.
I donât think that thereâs anything necessarily wrong with that, though. Unranked players are missing a lot, but theyâre not missing everything. They can still play survival normally, have fun experiences, and interact with the community. Leaderboards arenât everything, and Iâve been able to have a lot of fun as a rankless player the few times Iâve played.
Thereâs also the obvious argument that Munchy needs to make money. Survival wonât get any updates if ibby isnât able to pay her internet bill. The fact that ++ offers so many advantages motivates people to buy it, which indirectly allows survival to use more resources for fun updates and events. Putting up with a few pay-to-win features allows the game to be more fun overall, for both ranked and unranked players.
Overall, I still do wish that Survival wasnât as pay-to-win (I would probably play more if it was), but I also understand the reasoning behind why it is the way it is. One thing that I do know is that ibby and the development team are always looking for ways to better balance Survival, and that theyâre grateful for any feedback they get. Help them out and bring your ideas to the table!
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