Very well worded, Mr. Bot1.
I’d like to revive a quote of mine just to completely make sure everyone reading understands my argument:
I do not even mind that survival is pay to win, I’m just arguing that it is because I feel it’s important to see things from the perspective of an unranked player, which is a very easy thing to forget when you’ve had a rank for multiple years. I also feel it is relevant to the original topic of this post which is “Are IRL deals okay”, and that’s why I even brought it up in the first place.
I think I’d have a very different perspective on the server’s P2W nature if IRL dealing wasn’t allowed, as it would truly put people who cannot afford a rank at a disadvantage. This is why I think IRL dealing needs to stay as long as ranks are P2W.
…this topic kinda went insane already. But this reply will be short. I have been reading every single reply from it and this is my final thought; I empathise that my answers were kind of scuffled and that, no matter what, ranks will give an advantage, even though it can be seen as something extremely unfair or not.
I won’t use the word pay-to-win here but I understand what is being expressed. Ranks provide ways to ease the experience of one player. This isn’t wrong and I agree with that. I can tell than some ranks can be busted, some way less, at the end of the day those are things that will mark a difference between a rankless player and someone that have one.
But there was an issue; I came to a conclusion that people weren’t necessarily highlighting solutions and were more focused on criticising some perks whereas I tried my best to express solutions while neglecting the actual advantages. It was a mistake from both parts in my opinion and I wanna apologise. I took things too personally and shall now open my mind to other perspectives!
We should probably seek for ways to make the game better, shouldn’t we?
so now I’m gonna go with this comparison but infused with McDonald’s story. Player 1 buys a rank and player 2 doesn’t but they still remain good friends. Player 1 gets so many perks and items with his rank! But player 2 doesn’t but is still satisfied. Player 1 goes on to build mega bases in less then a week. Player 2 makes a decent base in a month. Player 1 and 2 decide to enter a water drop event for some money so player 2 practices all night and player 1 just decides to sleep all day. The day of the water drop event arrives and it appears both players are entering. Player 1 dies from lack of practice even with his perks but player 2 wins the prize! Player 1 is envious and goes to try to become stronger to brag to player 2 but player 2 is too busy having fun. 1 year goes by and both are ready to leave for college but player 1 is still grinding when he hit the top and trying to ruin player 2’s day so player 2 doesn’t let this bother him and just has fun. The last day before they both leave for college comes and player 1 snaps and says “Why are you happy? You have no ranks, no good items, and no spots on the leaderboard. How are you happy” player 2 simply says “I was too busy having fun to realize”. Player 1 is baffled because while he has a lot of power and items he never really had tried to have fun so he realizes he wasted his life caring about some small thing on a Minecraft server.
The moral of this story is that games ain’t about buying a rank and unless it directly effects you then you should have fun because otherwise even without a rank you can waste your experience caring about this rank and even with it the rank won’t help you have fun it just gives perks and instead if worrying to get those perks to better in the game you should worry about having fun. Instead of wasting your life being envious about a small thing. It’s a game people, have fun.
Now someone’s gonna make a counter argument to this but I don’t care because I’m muting this channel because I think it’s lost it’s purpose as a discussion but that’s personally me so please don’t make some stupid response cause I ain’t reading it.
Why do you keep posting in threads about gamemodes you don’t play with thought terminating clichés?
You’re arguing if someone doesn’t like that they can’t afford to p2w while seeing the benefits that brings to people who do, that’s a failure of character on their part?
I think you’re declaring your intention not to reply to any argument because you know how trite and dismissive this post is…
Trying not to dip into non-munchy political talk but… this argument is full of appeals to emotion and is diversionary and manipulative. It’s not helpful for any genuine discussion of p2w.
Many players have already said they don’t think that munchy necessarily shouldn’t be p2w. Just that it’s dishonest to claim that it isn’t (or that it doesn’t have p2w elements depending on your definition of p2w)
I feel like you’re just putting people down for daring to think.
a: drexor does play surv, i see them there daily.
b: your example also assumed things that you cannot say for sure.
c: yours was also full of emotion in the same manner. you quite literally stated that the rankless player never made freinds and eventually left the server. anyone would feel bad for the guy :/
d: drexor’s point is that while the server is p2w, its that it isnt severe p2w. did you for get drexor also doesnt have a rank? bros not putting people down for trying to think, they came up with an example just like you did. this example made for surv rather than prison.
the reason the argument that this server isnt p2w is because p2w has a very VERY bad idea around it.
im not going to cover over why munchy has a system like this and why it would be hard to do anything else. thats been covered.
p2w servers usually dont have very good staff, the owner is usually driven by monetary gain alone and thus its not always a great place for player. it assumes negatively about the players who spend money. that theyre cheaters or literally couldnt do anything they do without the rank or crate items etc.
the reason we argue its not p2w is because we dont want people to think that the amazing munchy staff is bad, we dont want people to think we’re cheaters when we did nothing wrong. we want people to understand that most of us (hopefully all of us) wouldnt look down on someone for having a rank. hey one of my closest freinds on here doesnt even have a rank.
idk how to end posts lol i have been trying for like 7 minutes
b. I don’t think you read my post that explicitly stated the players don’t exist, qualified the diversity of player experience and described them as a metaphor to illustrate a point.
c. my post made a logical point describing differences between p2w and non p2w, while drexor’s utilised an appeal to emotion which makes no point and disparaged others for disussing it in the first place by accusing people discussing it of a failure of character.
d. I don’t know if he has a rank and I don’t care, I’m just tired of him spamming people’s threads and contributing nothing to discussions. It comes off as disingenuous and self-aggrandising. He came up with an example sure… that put people down for trying to think and discussing this.
Arguing that the server isn’t p2w because p2w is bad and munchy is good is teleological argument which makes no sense. p2w has (deserved) negative connotations, obviously. What’s being discussed is not those connotations, but how it affects munchy. As stated previously, everyone discussing them is aware that microtransactions as a business model are ubiquitous in gaming now.
You ought not to regard discussion about p2w on munchy as a personal attack, because it isn’t. No one has accused p2w players of being cheaters, and many posters who have pointed out the disparity between ranks and non-ranks are players who have ranks themselves. If people discussing p2w on munchy makes you feel like a cheater, that’s on your conscience. If we thought the server was bad, or that munchy staff were bad, we wouldn’t be here in the first place.
a: while this is the prison server the post asked about both surv and prison
b: drexor’s people dont exist either lol.
c: yours also invoked emotion. unfairness aint right and anybody can see that.
d: ah man im starting to think you dont like drexor and youre trying to use that as an argument point somehow. also, no it didnt? where on earth are you getting that from.
i pointed out WHY people argue its not p2w. i explained to you WHY. this post in the replies has allready deviated from the point it started at. i was giving reasoning as to why people do that.
i dont view it as an intentional personal attack. and also, while not on this server, yes they have. you may never have heard of it, but yes mate, people do think that way, (i included once being a person like that). people discussing p2w makes me in no way feel like a cheater. again all i was doing was pointing out a good reason why its argued. if someone called me, myself, p2w, i would literally not care. as it is i dont care about this argument, i only got involved again because the way your counter argument to drexor was written out. saying that a post is emotionally manipulate AGAIN puts a negative connotation on the writer.
you may not like drexor but dont bring that into the discussion.
again im not saying i disagree with you, i actually fully agree with your points.
anyway, you said not the connotations, but how it affects munchy?
well how about this my guy, if you tell people its p2w they probably wont play because of the deserved reputation p2w servers have.
boom negatively affects munchy
you assumed that I felt attacked when i, again, was merely stating a reason why people argue its not p2w. im not saying munchy is perfect either btw.
im not sure you’re going to get my point at all tbh.
if you respond to me again thats going to be really silly because i literally do not care lol.
tldr: i meant the post to give a reason why people argue its not p2w when it is and i am too tired to continue with this sillyness.
also probably not replying to this anymore and if you STILL respond to this with half an essay’s worth of words im going to wonder about your time management skills.
A. fair point, but he keeps commenting on posts about prison too. Total brainfart on my part for this one, I got my wires crossed.
B. Yes, but my point was to illustrate the differences in player experiences between ranked and non-ranked players. You characterised my post as intending to be representative of all players, when I explicitly stated that isn’t the case, that’s why that the players don’t exist matters. There’s no whataboutism to be had when saying the same thing about his post because I never made the same accusation.
C. the conclusion of my post was “There is a tangible difference between non-ranked and ranked players and one ought not to act like there isn’t when it’s effects are demonstrable.” while drexxor’s conclusion was “you should be having fun!” which… isn’t really saying much at all. That’s why people play videogames.
D. No, I don’t like Drexxor right now because he keeps spamming posts. I can explain my logic to you if you like. The competitive aspect of gaming is, in itself, what some people find fun about playing it. It would be absurd for a cross country runner to say to footracer that they should have just been focusing on having fun running, because their goals and objectives, and what they enjoy about performing the action of running, is different. To characterise the footracer of having a moral failure because they weren’t trying to have fun is, in my view, diversionary and manipulative because it dismisses the motivations of the footracer as unimportant.
I’m not sure why you’re getting angry at me but I feel as if you’re being particularly defensive about this, and shifting the goalposts.
people discussing p2w makes me in no way feel like a cheater.
we dont want people to think we’re cheaters when we did nothing wrong.
This doesn’t quite add up, no one accused you of doing anything wrong, but you’ve explicitly stated that you feel as if discussing this makes people view you as a cheater. It doesn’t.
if you tell people its p2w they probably wont play because of the deserved reputation p2w servers have.
None of us are going to quit a server we enjoy because of this discussion. However, people have quit the server in the past because of the effects of p2w, that’s part of what is being discussed. As players of a server we enjoy, it benefits us to discuss it honestly.
It says survival right there, and I have friends in prison and while my knowledge ain’t great I do know a bit about it so stop trying to assume I don’t know anything because that’s what we call a “non sequitur” which is making a conclusion not following the premise. This is a non Sequitur because you say if I use the forums a lot and respond to an issue on it regarding prison and survival then it shouldn’t involve people using the forums a lot. That’s 1 fallacy so far.
This is called a straw man argument. You have 0 proof and on arguing as long as p2w doesn’t generally effect someone in a way that’s harmful it’s fine. 2 fallacies
This is another fallacy called “affirming the consequent” because you see a lot of talk of prison on this forum topic and you play prison so this must be prison when it clearly states and survival (also kiikyo isn’t a man) 3 fallacies
Your using a “genetic fallacy” right now considering your dismissing the actual points of my argument and judging that it came from me so it must be wrong because I don’t play prison which is what your referring to and you say that I’m not replying further even though I have 0 interest in this argument and making a statement on p2w and your judging that just because of me and not the argument. 4 fallacies
Never attacked or responded to anyone and I congratulated the person I responded to if anything and you are assuming something not even there!?!?!? I never attacked anyone in-fact your doing this right now on me and this is a red herring right now since you are changing the topic of p2w to me putting people down for stating their opinions. I have been respectful and In case you forgot what happened to your post I asked everyone to be nicer and stop acting In a childish manner and I was met with backlash and the post got closed. 5 fallacies
Your dismissing my argument because you think I made a fallacy. Bruh. My favorite fallacy the “fallacy fallacy” aka you think my argument is useless solely because you think I used a fallacy. 6 fallacies
Never really took peoples opinions and put them down like you are with me right now. Fun fact, I’m not. This is a “faulty generalization” argument because I disagreed with you you seem to think I’m disagreeing with everyone and I’m like this to literally everyone just because I don’t see your side. 7 fallacies
Actually this is a “non sequitur” argument because your saying
if p then q
Q
Therefore x
As an argument format
Then why are you doing this with me?
BECAUSE YOUR TALKING ABOUT p2w AND NOT THE MODE ITSELF.
First you spelt my name wrong with 2 x’s and an o and not a 0 shoblette, 2nd the conclusion was about p2w has no effect on the other and both sides could have been happy and it’s a matter of mindset. You are using a straw man argument because your misinterpretations my argument in a way that you can easily attack/condemn. That’s 8 fallacies
That’s because someone keeps replying and I clearly stated I didn’t want someone to respond but kiikyo hit me up specially for this occasion .
@Kiikyo I only met recently but I don’t need long to know she is a smart and kind person so I highly doubt she’s getting angry at you so I suggest you look at what provoked her. Part of the reason but not all is your fallacy ridden responses to me.
It benefits us to discuss this civilly as I stated in a discussion before but OH WAIT thay post is locked because you kept discussing this in a horrible way and you targeted staff members and players. I made 1 small reminder and immediately got backlash for this and yes you are right people quit because of p2w but sometimes people stay for it because they already spent money, and if servers didn’t give perks with money they don’t make revenue. Take skyblock isles for example a server owned by an incredible big YouTuber! With original ideas and premises galore! Well you see that sever died in popularity eventually but it had a player base, however it didn’t have ranks and perks to sell when it was at its height so it died from lack of funding and players. If munchy were to not have perks with ranks it would be belly up in less then 6 months (provided bbh didn’t use his own money to find the server and only used the revenue) because almost no one donates to keep severs up. Your stating that p2w is bad and we should discuss it but silencing people’s arguments like me and kiikyo because they aren’t “relevant to the discussion even though this discussion seems (this is an interpretation not stating a fact) like everyone should just take your side.
Now where do we go from here? Oh yeah I know I don’t Care about what you say but apologize to @Kiikyo please.
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